Hi Anonymous!
thanks for your comment!
I believe that the law you referred to in Romans 6 is talking about the ceremonial law not the moral law, it was the ceremonial law that made necessary the sin offerings etc. because YHWH couldn't look upon sin, when Y'shua became the ultimate sacrifice we became no longer bound by the laws of sin and death (ceremonial laws)and we now have direct access to our Abba Father. I agree, He delights in His children and wants to hold us in His laps and speak truth over us as we worship Him in adoration!
In Romans 6 it says in the Message translation "So since we are out from under the old tyranny, does that mean we can live any old way we want? Since we're free in the freedom of God, can we do anything that comes to mind? Hardly. You know well enough from your own experience that there are some acts of so-called freedom that destroy freedom. Offer yourselves to sin, for instance, and it's your last free act. But offer yourselves to the ways of God and the freedom never quits. All your lives you've let sin tell you what to do. But thank God you've started listening to a new master, one whose COMMANDS set you free to live openly in HIS freedom!"
The Torah is most definitely summed up by loving God and loving others...Y'shua ALSO said that if we love Him, we will obey His teachings which is in the Tenach (OT). John 14
Right now I'm at a place where I'm falling in love with Y'shua all over again...and as a family we go into this journey, not to follow a bunch of rules, but in worship of the Father. Keeping the Sabbath has caused me to see the importance of planning and being prepared instead of living undisciplined. And this is just after scratching the surface! I truly believe that we will live in much greater freedom as we follow the instructions our Father left for us in the Torah. I have no interest in following the traditions of the Pharisees or even the traditions of Judaism! I simply want to obey the instruction of YHWH, because He loves me and I Him. His yoke is truly easy, not burdensome! If it is burdensome for someone then their motives are not right and it HAS in fact become just a loveless action. We definitely agree on this point! lol
As for circumcision, yup, Paul said it! it doesn't mean anything in and of itself. Yet Paul says in the very same verse that "keeping God's commands is what counts". So I believe that in obedience to God because I love Him and want to bless Him with my obedience, I will circumcise my sons. (not me personally of course!!! lol) In Ezekiel 44:9 in one of his prophesies ...it says very clearly that "no foreigners uncircumcised in heart and flesh is to enter my sanctuary, not even the foreigners who live among the Israelites" this is after the instructions for building the temple are given...I believe this to be the third temple which is yet to be built. So again, we don't need circumcision to be "saved" but it is clear YHWH is in favor of it...
and for food you are quite right we CAN eat anything, but not if it is a stumbling block to the company around us, we are to be sensitive to our friends and not be a stumbling block. When we go to my inlaws house, they always serve us bacon for breakfast. I don't say "no, don't eat that, it is unclean!" I allow my children to eat it and we bless it just the same...however at home we will eat Kosher simply because we believe it to be healthier. for example, I know of a lady who had cancer...she did the chemo thing the first time around and beat it, the second time around she went to her naturopath and he put her on what he called the "cancer diet" which is identical to eating Biblically Kosher! I thought that was fascinating! So we are well on our way to eating kosher...again, not because we HAVE to but we just see the wisdom in it. If Abba loves us enough to tell us what foods He prefers us to eat, there's got to be a reason! lol
1 Cor 6 is often taken out of context and made to fit any circumstance people want it to fit. However, in the verses previous to the verse you are referring to, Paul is chastising the believers for taking one another to court and not living in harmony and love, then the verses after it talks about sexual immorality! I like the way the message translation says it, "Just because something is technically legal doesn't mean that it's spiritually appropriate. If I went around doing whatever I thought I could get by with, I'd be a slave to my whims." I truly believe Paul is talking about anything that causes addictions...like my sick addiction to the computer.
I have to say that I do not agree with this statement that you said, "but i don't believe the Bible teaches that we have to do them to love God. He says we don't. for some they may be a hinderance to the gospel." Y'shua NEVER anywhere said that we do not have to obey His commands, which are in the Torah. Paul, never says we are not to obey the instructions in the Torah. Only the ceremonial laws are done away with...as people seek YHWH and HIS ways, they will see the Torah for what they are...instructions to make life easier for us...not harder. It is only when we see them as a bunch of rules to follow will they hinder our relationship with our Lord. It is like the analogy I heart from a friend...following the traffic rules while driving a car isn't legalistic, it keeps things in order...it's the same with keeping the Torah!
But as long as the enemy is keeping Christians in the pews at church drinking only milk from the pastor and (the enemy keeps)convincing them that they don't need to dig deep for themselves, then they will never discover the Truth that is in the Torah.
In Matthew 5:17-19, Y'shua clearly says this, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven." Umm, heaven and earth are still here...the OT is NOT done away with, but oh how the Christian church would have you believe this horrible lie! It's sick how the enemy uses Christianity!
Oh and the only reason I use the Hebrew names when talking about the God I love is out of respect. Did you know that Jesus isn't even a Hebrew name? It means absolutely nothing! His mother called Him "Yahshua" and so that is what I call Him. The meanings of our names are very powerful...so I will use His real name, because it has real meaning.
I certainly don't have all the answers...LOL and I'm sooo loving studying His Word! Blessings to you! I wish I knew who you were! LOL
6 comments:
hi. love interacting with you.
so, are you saying you think we should not wear mixed garments or sow two kinds of grain in one field or harm the edges of our beards (for men)?? those were the kind of laws i was saying i don't think we're under. of course "the Law" matters. it defines love. yet isn't it interesting that Jesus took the law to a new level...beyond the action to the heart. and that is the problem i have when i am so focused on law. i forget about heart. yes, i believe in the ten commandments. yes, i believe i shouldn't murder. but for most people that is easy enough. Jesus made it real. he said, don't hate your brother. don't despise him. pray for your enemies.
i absolutely agree that if we love our Father we'll obey his teachings. the more we see God for who He is the more we'll desire to obey Him. i still think it starts with relationship though.
i'm delighted that you're falling in love with your Father. that is what matters. i too am doing that but in a different way. funny. if keeping the sabbath helps you with order that's great. God loves order. yet, would you say a person is sinning or worshipping less by staying in bed with their family until ten, then making a huge breakfast, cleaning the house together and gathering with friends and family to worship?? do you see what i'm getting at? i don't believe we "have" to keep the sabbath anymore. i don't think i love God more or less no matter what way i do it unless He has laid it on my heart to do a certain one. (which would be what you are doing i believe) and i KNOW God doesn't love me less no matter what. i think it's the same with what you call Him. as God is revealing new truths to you about Himself your heart may want to cry "Y'shua" but some other person might just say...Oh God...and He might be as delighted to hear their voice as yours. it seems to me quite clear in Scripture that God is concerned with the heart...not actions. don't misread me here. i am not saying actions aren't important....but heart must come first.
i LOVE the O.T. i've read it many, many times. it is truth and points us to Christ. yet it wasn't written to us. for us but not to us. there's a difference.
if circumcision is obeying God than why did Paul say it's nothing.
i'm not against either way yet i would much rather my boys hearts be circum. than their body.
i guess there are three dangers i see with following the torah to the letter.
1. i can become so wrapped up in following it that i forget about the most important thing: relationship with my Father.
2. It's easy for me to begin believing i am good because of the rules i obey rather than because of Jesus' work on the cross.
3. It's easy for me to focus on outward rather than inward.
what i mean is...there's no doubt that God gave rules for a reason. like you said...eating bacon isn't a sin but it's not healthy and we're suppose to take care of our bodies. but how far do you take it. i could spend my whole life so busy making sure my family eats healthy that i forget to work on my anger problem or that i don't have time to love my neighbor. (please note i'm not saying you do this. i don't know anything about you and i'm sure you're great at proper balance...this is just a danger i've observed in my own life) of course there are dangers if you go to the opposite extreme. my mom always says...keep balanced. that's the most important thing. don't ever allow truth to slip from your life even a little but make sure it's wrapped in grace, etc.
the funny thing is i probably agree with you a lot more than you realize but i like to question and think through both sides.
oh wow...this is getting way to long. :-) there's more i could say and i'm sure i didn't explain that like i meant it.....sigh....
oops...my response went so long this didn't fit.
in response to the comment of mine you didnt' agree with.
i didn't mean we don't have to obey God's commands to love Him. he..he....
i would be the first to say that we do. i meant i don't believe we have to observe the sabbath or wear clothes with unmixed fabrics or refrain from touching our husbands during a period to love God. i meant i don't have to obey those laws i believe no longer apply to us to love God.
and what i meant about it being a hinderance to the gospel is that i have see loved ones so caught up in obeying the torah that they forget the Savior. they forget about relationship with the Father. does that make sense?
It does make sense...perhaps these are all ceremonial laws that were done away with? I don't have the answers...still searching..lol
No, some things totally don't make sense at all...and yet I wonder about the mixing of fabrics, a lot of people have skin allergies now...is this possibly due to the mixing of fibers?? Just a thought, not a revelation...lol
You are right, it ALL boils down to relationship. For me, I've come to realize that HIS ways make my path straight, so I will seek Him and find out what HIS ways are.
I don't condemn anyone who does not want to do this. That is between them and YHWH, but this is the path He is leading our family down. It is miraculous in itself that Jamie(my husband) and I came to this path on our own at the same time. To me that is confirmation that YHWH is leading us here.
I'm only sharing my own insights into Scripture and the path we're being led to. Not to condemn others who don't do the same.
You DID say however that you don't believe you have to keep the Sabbath...this is one of the ten commandments...so um, yeah...I got a problem with this one...lol
I completely understand what you are saying. And I agree it IS all about our heart and our relationship with our Father in Heaven. It IS easy to get caught up in all the "works"...this reminds me of the difference between Mary and Martha...you know the story?
You mention a bunch of hypothetical situations which don't apply to me right now so I have a hard time seeing them as valid arguments for not keeping Torah. What if I do get caught up in the traditions? then that means my relationship with YHWH is suffering and needs to be mended, this is no different that ANY situation.
All I can do is continually point out Scripture that shows me how YHWH wants me to live my life...it is laid out very plainly. I know that everyone will not agree with me, that's ok.... :)
I'm used to people looking at me like I grew a third head...lol
Just know that I'm on a journey, these are my findings and thoughts thus far! I haven't arrived at perfection yet...I may even be wrong on a lot of points. GASP!!! hehe
Blessings to you as we both search for the Truth!
hmmm....once again i didn't communicate clearly. ha.
it's not that i don't believe in the taking a day to rest and worship God with His body. what i meant by not believing in the Sabbath is i don't believe we have to keep it the way they did in the Torah.
as i look into God's Word it seems that every law He gave in the O.T. is taken to a deeper level in the N.T.
so when i say i don't believe in the sabbath i mean i don't believe that i have to do it on sat. and not cook meals or take out my garbage if it's overflowing. it seems to me that Jesus was concerned about people and their hearts. he let his disciples pick grain on the sabbath cause they were hungry. he healed on the sabbath cause there was a need. so although i always do my major work and housecleaning on friday so i don't have to work on sunday there are many times when, in order to serve someone, i do work on the sabbath.
the thing is God is the same God in the O.T. and N.T. so i don't believe His heart for us has changed. i just think people were missing the point in the O.T. He says over and over to them...you do lip service but your hearts are far from me. obviously He had issues with the Pharisees. it was because they lived to the letter of the law but forgot the heart.
now if you're wondering why i'm bothering to write this at all please know i'm not trying to discourage you in your walk or say that you're wrong.
you see, i come from a family steeped in tradition. (not my immediate family but my extended one and there are hundreds of them)
i have seen people so concerned with obeying the sabbath that they destroy relationships in order to obey it to the letter. i have seen people turn from simply wanting to obey God to clinging to their "Godly standards" thinking that they are gaining God's acceptance through them. i have seen people begin by simply desiring to love God and yet in the end they are in bondage to the law.
i am not saying that you are doing this. like i said i'm probably more like you than you realize but i write this simply to beg you not to ever give up relationship for the sake of rules. not with God or others. i have seen firsthand the damaging results of that and i don't believe that is God's desire or will for anyone.
and you are right when you say the church doesn't realize what they miss when they don't believe in the Torah. yet, i believe the real issue is people's hearts not the fact that they don't obey the torah. we have forgotten our first love. we don't understand grace. we don't know truth. in short we've lost a love of God's Word altogether.
may you always adore your Father, search for truth, accept grace and love others more than yourself.
hope your day is joy-full!
Thank you for your thoughts about not giving up friendships!! Relationships ARE important, this I agree with! lol
Our Father is most concerned about our hearts and our inner self...because what is going on inside manifests on the outside! It makes total sense! At the same time, as He is cleansing me from the inside out, I MUST obey His Word, when Holy Spirit convicts me of something, even if I don't understand it....because I know my Father only has good things in store for me. It is when I disobey that consequences of sin happen. So whether I have full understanding or not, I will obey what I learn from His Word...not all the traditions of man whether it's Christian tradition or Judaic tradition.
If my obedience causes my friends to no longer want to be around me, I have to wonder why...is it the Spirit convicting them? Because I believe that if we are obeying our Lord in love, it will draw people and make them curious, not turn them away.
If anything I hope it causes them to dig deeper into the Word and hopefully spark interesting conversations...like this one! lol
Blessings to you!! I pray the Holy One shows me how to love like He loves...this is an area I truly struggle in, which I also believe is the spiritual root for the diabetes I'm dealing with. I'm currently going through some teachings on forgiveness and am excited about what I'm learning and am hopeful that complete healing will be attained as I learn more and apply it to my life. But I think loving others will always be hard until I can learn to love myself. There is much self-loathing, and my love for others will not be selfless until I get over this hurdle.
So well spoken Lori-Dawn!!
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